Dow Now Sky High - Stocks & Economy - MSNBC.com

The "bad news" is the product of the government reporting on retail sales ~ not a creation of any news outlet. Maybe they should just shelve the story (like the Edwards tryst). You will recall the fallout that action prompted, I'm sure. But the bigger story might be that massively huge pile of scrap paper behind the Commerce Department ~ evidence of the late night massaging and manipulating in attempts to make the final draft more appealing and less derogatory.

If you truly prefer Cuba to the States, Pedro, give me a call. I'd be delighted to go the cost of the ticket to bring you happiness in Paradise once more. Question: what the Hell are you doing here in the first place?

Pedro,

Take me with you, please!

I think the Cubans are beginning to see America isn't all it's cracked up to be....that's a scary thought that these folks risk their lives to come here then want to go back.

Hey Pedro blaming the messenger doesn't change the message.

Pedro, hit the road, buddy. Cuba must be alot better ... media censorship and all.

We can overlook, avoid and even whine about Pedro's statement; but it is regretablly true. In financial behavior it is referred to as herd mentality. We find an anchor to base all of our future assumptions on. Thus, when the media says that Wall Street and life in general sucks, we assume they have a point of reference. The problem is that we have permitted them to frame the issue for us and we neglect to make critical observations for ourselves. Hence; if the media spins a yarn saying how bad things are, we react accordingly and perpetuate the problem even worse. Bad news sells. Good news stays on the rack.

If Wall Street has to react only to news and rumor then it needs to fall flat and correct itself. Its reaction should be only to solid financial gain or loss in facts and truth not based on emotions and hearsay. The entire premise and foundation of stock markets and how they react is ridculous and extremely risky at best. Investment in the market is a "crap shoot" under these circumstances and not worth a damn.

whether Pedro goes back to Cuba or not...he is not lying about the American media.

Plus the faces on this story are SMILING..interesting picture for people in "CRISIS"

Maybe the JOKE IS on Americans......Who said people from other Countries can't criticize

America....it's not like she has been exhibiting STERLING behavior lately...at least CUBANS

have free HEALTH CARE....and PEDRO is NOT the PRESIDENT of CUBA...blaming him

for his COUNTRY is like the WORLD blaming us for GW BUSH..I'm not COMMUNIST and

I'm not a HYPOCRITE either...get off of PEDRO'S back and ON to the BS in this COUNTRY

...at least he has some where to go....if this s**t crumbles...where do we GO.

It amazes me that people actaully count on the media, with all the information out on the internet and search engines you can find information everywhere and anywhere on any subject. I do not pay any attention to any of the news media, but spend 5 hours an evening before going back to work (I average 90 hours) a week in researching and understanding what is going on. Forunetly I am educated enough to be able to read, reason, and develop my own opinions, which may not be the same as the media or other people but that is why I live in a free society. Pedro is correct, but unfortunetly too many American listen to these outlet as gospel and make decisions (normally bad ones) on what they spew. America needs to wake up do a little extra work and make their own decisions from financial to political. Its tough but its our job and the only way we can get out of this mess were in now. As far as leaving the country, if Pedro or anyone else does that at least were free to do it, when Pedro left Cuba he wasn't free to do that, if he was caught he would be in jail. Remember self-government does not work without self-disclipine, and we have lost our self-disclipine.

Rob they don't teach that kind of stuff in the schools anymore. They also don't teach taking responsibility for one's actions and being accountable for the same said actions.

I did not learn that in school, I learned that in home. A two parent home with a mother and father, they were the guiding light, just like my wife and I have been for our kids. The problem we have is someone is always waiting for someone else to raise their kids rather than doing it themselves and you see what we get when the village raises them.

Pedro  parece  tener  razon.  Da  miedo  pensar  que  todo  lo  que  esta  sucediendo  es  parte  de  una pre-electoral  conspiracion  del Partido  Democrata!  ?No  es  acaso  posible  que  la  crisis  del  mercado  conviene  a  gente  como  Senadora  Nancy Pelosi?

Well, now I'm thoroughly convinced the well-being of our economy is totally built upon the confidence of stupid people.

First, people haven't stopped spending. 1.4% drop in spending.... idiots. People are saving for the holiday spending. They're comparing mid-year spending to full-year spending, and that's not even fair.

Second, at the first sign of a drop in spending by a few percent, the market crashes? Please!

If people would just ignore their retirement fund for just a year, then we'd be ok. Your retirement fund is going to bounce back when this is over. Don't let that stop you from spending.

If the market would ignore spending for just a year, then we'd be ok. People would start spending if the market was confident.

You see, this is simply a catch-22 in financial confidence. If someone were the first to have guts, this would already be over.

The way I look at it, this is an awesome time to invest. You may or not see a dip right after you invest, but inevitably it will return. You might have to wait a year or two, but the return would definitely be awesome.

Good-Bye Pedro & Via con Dios!

Pedro, can I pay your way?

Fox has been trying to give it to you straight (no pun on the new gay marriage state).  I was happy to see that even the liberal media is starting to wonder if the stock market is reacting to the incoming administation.  Wow........we have CHANGE.......not the Dow Jones anymore, it is the Obama Jones

Goodbye Pedro, hurry.

Pedro, my tv has a channel selection option! You just change the channel and they go away. You can make a lot of money in Cuba explaning how to exercise the options available on the remote. Enjoy your new life in sunny Cuba and tell Fido hello.

desert voice,

I agree with you!  They are going to get their bailout for the auto industry because of her.  Another big mistake! Mark my words, the rise may have been high today but the "fall tomorrow" is going to worse.  It may be a conspiracy, but we are all stuck in it now.

Wow the ignorance on this site has reached epic proportions...if anybody even dares speak about leaving our country they are automatically branded traitors by so-called "patriots" - like our very own Gestapo.  Ever heard of freedom?  Pedro has the freedom to say what he wants and to do as he wants, even if that means moving to another country, which really doesn't matter since it was only a joke you idiots...

I agree.  There are many ways to say something and the press, when it wants to, can make things sound like the best thing since sliced bread.  But when they want to preach doom and gloom, boy, are they good at it.  Negative news seems to be i fashion these days, anyhow, something like sacrificing the Christians to the lions.  We ought to challenge the press to one day of publicizing nothing but good news.  I wonder if they could do it.

The union is killing the auto makers! Line workers are making $70.00 per hour, that is ludicrous! There was a time and place for unions, but now they have just gotten corrupt and ruin companies. I was a member of the IBEW for 15 years, and they didn't do anything but take the dues every month. If there was an issue, they just said, "nothing we can do". Then they started assessing us a day's pay to catch up for their incompetance. I would never work for a union again! It ruined Kaiser Aluminum in Spokane. They called it the Lazy K because people could go to work and find a corner to sleep in. If someone asked them to run a paper up to the office, they would say "not my job" and do nothing. A supervisor picked up a piece of metal off the floor because he thought it unsafe, and got a greivance filed against him because salary personnel aren't supposed to touch any of the work. Another company in WI just went on strike a few weeks ago (only lasted a day) and now the company is shifting machinery to their Canadian plant. And Obama is trying to help out the unions by getting rid of the secret ballot. Assinine! Workers would then be intimidated to serve the cash cow union. And you wonder why companies are moving to China or Vietnam? The work ethic in this country sucks due to unions. Everybody feels entitlement without responsibility. Gawd people are stupid...

I see that Obama predicts that "millions of jobs" might be lost next year.

Scare tactics ALREADY!  He hasn't even moved to DC yet!

Already he is copying Bush's game plan by trying to force stuff down our throats via fear!

Now, I'm really afraid....of 8 more years like the last 8  years.

Crystal 569996... There isn't a single autoworker on the line making $70/hr. Do you just make these facts up?

Our car makers in the US are done,they talk about the 400 jump the Dow made,big deal,wait another 6-12 month's and see were we are,i bet you a lot worse than we are now, it will take a while untill it bottoms out.Can Obama turn the auto industry around?? I say a big NOOOOOOOO he can't, The bailout will not work unless CEO's, Managers have their salaries cut at least 50% and no more perks and bonusses until profit is made.Same thing for the union wages they have to come down a lot,they have been overpayed for years due to the greedy unions,demanding higher and higher wages and now everything comes to a grinding stop,remember also most of this work is unskilled labor. Overseas countries can do the same work for $30.00 a day and knocked us out of the competition,Obama has no choice ,not only has to let the salaries and wages drop down but make sure we make more electric cars. So this is the picture, we have too sacrafice a lot for a long time if we like to keep manufactury jobs here in the states.If we don't our manufactury business is dead meat.

DeJay that figure of $70 came from an article a little while back.  That figure includes all the benefits they receive.  I would like that kind of wage, even with the benefits I get I don't come near that figure.  Oh by the way where I work we are not union.  We have plants all over the world and have not move any jobs off shore in fact they are hiring and even building so that they have room.  As always just my opinion.

If the company stockcar 19 works for offers it's employees resonable pay, benefits and oppurtunity for improvenment, great. However people like crystal seem like they would have all be thankful for the part time retail jobs at minimum wage and if anything happens, too bad. You know, the same kind of jobs that unions were created for. As for unskilled labor in the auto industry, everyone has a lug nut installer making $25 per hr story- blahblahblah. I've actually been under the hood of a vehicle. I know how they work. I would not want to assemble one. Yes, unions have to police themselves better ( I am a union memeber). If anyone has a memory, this problem has been 20 yrs plus in the making. American car manufacturers missed the boat at the end of the 70's and into 80's. That gave the
Japanese a solid foot hold here. They did it again in the past few yrs. Toyota and Honda gave us hybrid vehicles, America gave us monster SUV wars culminating in 3 version of Hummers. You can blame labor all you want, that's nothing different. Labor always pays for management's failiongs.

Because of our freedom here you can voice your desire to return to Cuba in a blog where anybody can write how they feel. You have the freedom to do that in America. When you get back to Cuba, I wouldn't advise trying to write in a Cuban blog that you made a mistake and want to return to America.  Somebody might be knocking on your door in the middle of the night. That won't happen here.

Look for the CEOs and CFOs of HP, Dell, Apple, and Best buy being investigated by the New York Attorney Generals office for  Price-fixing, back-dating of options again, fudging their last QTR results. and intentionally misleading customers on warranty.

Also look for Borders (BGP) to declare bankruptcy.

First, Pedro, if ypu want to go to cuba, I'll pay your ticket with your promise not to come back.

Now on to the bad news:

The CEOS and CFOS of HP, Apple, Dell, and Best buy are being investigated by the NY attorney generals office for price-fixing, back-dated options issue (once again), misrepresentation of financial data from last QTR, and misleading the public about Warranty programs.

Borders (BGP) will declare bankruptcy by the end of December. It will 1st try chapter 11 first but be forced into chapter 7.

Finally, The offer stands Pedro. Start singing row, row, your boat in Spanish.

On the auto bailout, it will happened and bankrupt our country as our debt for next year will top, with the bail-outs and hand-outs 1.5 trillion.

Things have been worse in the history of this country. 

Pedro, catch the boat.

Pedro, I've never been to Cuba, and don't think you have either.  Enough of you.

I beleive that those that have been burned by greed should be burned.

This poopy storm started with the finance pimps in a free for all: 

• I personally know "legetimate business men" that aquired relatively $1.5 mil of real estate with $16/hr on paper. 
• When I was making just $50k a year seven years ago, mortgage whores were all over me.  I knew I could not aford their their offers, didn't want to listen to them.

Now things are upside down and I'm making significantly more money, have cash in the bank, and am willing to invest it.

There are two primary concerns:

• A vast majority of the landlords (said legitimate businiess men) in the area that I reside are screwed because they thought they hit paydirt in the mix of a dirty market.  Now they are forced to inflate tenant cost due to ARMs or interest only loans.
• Secondly, the Axe Man has come from my employer like he's harvesting the last forest. 

I do not know if I will have a job tomorrow.   

I will spend.  I will invest.  I will have a great holiday season. 

I will have a great New Year. 

I wish all of you the same.

I have given up on politics.  I have almost given up on humanity.

I did that in the '80s. 

Here we are again!!! 

The Media is a driving force, but it does not own us.                                                  

Oil is down, stocks have plumetted.  Buy!!! (even if its canned goods, bottled water, and diapers)

 Do what you can. 

I'm with you Pedro especially when my fellow Americans make excuses for the media/press...my location of choice however would be Italy, at least you know where you stand with the mafia!

Washington Mutual - WaMu Investors Demand Hearing, Investigation & Reversal of Washington Mutual Seizure ...

WAMUQ: Shareholder Information ...

The problem, as I see it, is that we're not talking about Obama's economic stimulus here.  Let's talk about that!  I think it's sounds as good as any other promise a politician tells his/her constituents.  Implementing that promise is a lot more difficult.  The US Gov't. isnt going to foot the total bill for this.  Never do.  THe states and local communities have to pitch in, usually up to 50%.  That's more taxpayer's taxes.  When you'all are out of work, you're not going to be able to pay anymore taxes are you?  Oh yeah, those jobs he promises.... Which one of you knows how to lay a brick, or have a license to install insulation, or install new windows?  Who's going to get those "jobs"?

I think he's full of Sh_t!  A chicken in every pot.  It's great to be upbeat and full of promise to keep our emotions from cutting us down, but you better look at the reality.  It's going to be bad for many years to come.  The root cause is not being addressed.

These leaders, these pillars of our community that have led us into this recession are not being taklen to task.  They are not being held accountable.  Which one of these son's of Bit_hes has paid a penny in penalties?  Which one has done any jail time?

Nobody is going to learn a lesson from this, except that you can do what was done, and then get bailed out.  What is going to teach them that this cannot be done without some retribution?  We the middle class have no say anymore in what happens to our jobs, our life savings, our dreams.  It is time that we, the real majority, take control of the issue.  Demand that those who committed these crimes, pay the price!!!!! If not, perhaps some type of strike, like the unions, would get their attention.

I'm pissed that nobody has been punished for what they did to the middle class, me included.  If the government wants to prove they care about the American people, they will begin today, holding these people accountable.

I believ Pedro's comment was supposed to be ironic - In Cuba, the government tells the media what to say, and the media tells the people what to think (at least in public).  The US is supposed to be different, but if the media is simply making up the stories it wants us focusing on, what is the difference? 

I don't know what they are talking about when they say '08 is a year Wall Street would just as soon forget. The big shots on Wall Street made out,  literally, like bandits. They made huge salaries and bonuses just like they have for the last 30 years plus all that bail-out money they received from the gov. It's main street that got pummeled by the economic downturn (plunge is a more accurate word). Lost jobs, cratered 401K's, it's we the jobbled masses that took it in the shorts.

Totally agree, the article is misleading.  People make money on both ends and on every transaction.  Unfortunately, the average population did not make out.  However the smarter ones, the hedge funds, the shorters, early speculators, or the ones with advance knowledge made out like bandits.

The rest of us lost tremendous imaginary wealth, while our dollar devalues.  Hope in 2009 the new admininstration will help stablize the economical outlook, while starting restructuring the financial regulatory agencies and regulations.  May be in 2010, we'll start seeing some regulatory reforms take effect.  So far the deregulation did not see to work as well as it does on paper (an obvious mistake in not properly applying game theory to keynesian economic theory with proper variables).

Good BYE

yada yada

"The Dow Jones industrial average fell 33.8 percent for the year and 38 percent from its record close of 14,165.53 in October 2007, making it the Dow's worst year since 1931"

While true, it is nothing like the Great Depression when it dropped about 90%.

what and who cares about the stock market every one has been watching it like it drives the economy!

 what drives the economy is the tax paying consumer. if we stop driving like blind mice on the weekends we will get gas to 1.00 a gallon or less.

since the tax payers own fanny and freddie we should all have low mortgages at 3% but the bafoons in charge are going to see that everyone gets screwed, you can't pay foreclose and we will sell for less no!

the people of the nation will continue to get screwed in tell we unite vote out idotes like the idaho senator, and all the rest of the crookes and start over again.

 stop all the legal tie up in court that choke the nation. but who am i to think the nation can do better?

Predro instead of moving just not watch those channels. After not watching the news for a fews days it is amazing how ones demeanor and out-look changes. Watch the news at least once a week, but if you limit yourself to the news life doesn't seem so bad. It is going to hell in a hand cart, but at least I am upbeat and not suicidal as I would be if I watched it day in and day out.

Act like a Congressman and keep your head in the sand... Works For Me!

Here's the door!

off topic, we should bail out the children, throught the wellfare system as we had in the past, this would take care of our yourng at the same time create jobs, since the wellfare reform started, things are going down not just the health of our sociaty but our economic as well... cutting the benefit to children has been the greatest mistake this country has done...every one benefits from helping those in need... the wellfare moms spend their money taking care of their children which inturn grow up and work for sociaty and comtribute, to the wealth of this country...the business owner too benefit from the comsumtion that covers the childrens need...all this bailing  out of the top business is money been wasted, it should circulate, to bottom to top,,, at this time it's been circulated from the top to the bottom but it never gets to the botttom it evaporates before it can comtribute any benefit to all members of society,,, the domino ripple effect can be in it's negative as well as it's positive effects people are freaking out, with the economy havinga negative ripple affect, well the positive ripple affect can be activated by providing suppor for the bottom part (low income children's)wealth is about creating a strong society, it means heathy well ajusted individual, prepair to work and support the older generation,,, that one president whom founded this institution new this logic... it works... I can streess this out enough... most of you felt for the lazy wellfare mom logic and it's brought poverty, and resentment to this country. the solution among many other is helping the children of this country. 

It's only going to get worse as now Wells Fargo will be added to the Grand Jury investigation of Bank of America and JP Morgan and how they have used the TARP money. The SEC is also going to begin an investigation. JP Morgan will be the focus of a special investigation as there is evidence that will be presented to the Grand Jury in New York that this company misused the TARP money and their CEO and CFO signed off on Reports to the SEC that they knew were not an accurate picture of the company.

Out of all this will come, at the very least heavy fines and possible Jail sentences for the CEO and CFO of JP Morgan as the SEC has strict rules in place since the Tech collapse about reports and if it is proved that the reports signed off on were inaccurate then the CEO and CFO will go to Jail. The days of White collar Country clubs prison are over. If convicted, they will do hard time and you can take that to the bank.

The stock market's negitive reaction to the Obama presidentcy is to be expected.

With the swearing in of Obama the Socialist Train has left the station. The last three presidents and the elite in congress have been biulding this train and now it is ready to roll. Obama was choosen to be the conductor.

Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.(Texans, we really need to secceed)

Head out now, don't let the door smack you in the ass on your way out. bye bye we did not ask you to come in the first place.

Doug - amazing idea. In addition to high prices, let's create an energy shortage with long gas lines, not enough fuel oil to heat homes in the Northeast this winter, and other similar effects that would cripple our economy.

Hey! An oil shortage could be fun! It'll be like taking a time machine back to the 70's!

Wait, no, that doesn't sound fun after all....

Doug, you didn't pre-flight this recommendation, did you? In very short order, prices for every commodity would skyrocket, unemployment would probably approach 12-15% within three months of imposing such a quota, and the entire economy would collapse. Good luck with those consequences.

There is no need to worry about heating oil this winter....we are reminded, on a daily basis, that the globe is to warm to worry about winter anymore.

Doug - Though I appreciate the sentiment; I believe managing oil exports might be more helpful. We use very little of the oil from within our own borders. Ask yourselves why this is? Why do we consume mostly imported oil when most of our domestic oil is exported.

Because these oil companies are inflating the cost and can make more money selling it overseas as opposed to keeping it here. If the government wants to take over something how about taking over the oil companies and keep our oil here for our use all the while exploring energy alternatives to use here for the future. Let the other countries continue to buy foreign oil, just not from us.

Well Doug I guess the Republicans will become more and more wealthy no matter what we do. We're over a barrel because we didn't take the warnings seriously in the 70's. The Oil companies will continue to thumb their noses at the world until oil dries up. We have enough natural gas in the Country to run every one of our energy needs for the next 200 years....but we aren't using that because the auto companies and Big Oil are in bed together.

We actually have the technology right now to run all our autos and trucks on hydrogen fuel, but the greedy, money hungry and powerful controlling corporations won't let it happen. How foolish we've been and how very dumb the international community has acted.

I like the idea of an oil quota but I also know it will cause all the bad things mentioned and more.  As a result I would have to oppose an oil quota untill/unless a plan was put in place with it to replace the lost oil with something else whether domestic oil a renewable source of oil replacement or whatever.

I laughed at Doug's comment. Oil import LIMITATION!?

So why not implement food limitations to deal with the ever growing overpopulation of the planet? Or water limitations in desterted areas as the resource is scarce there?

I do not think such method would ever be implemented unless the country has a viable alternative policy towards energy resources and it would want to eventually switch from oil products to green energy. So far only Iceland is on its way to reach such a level. So in the case of US (where the country is far from taking such a step), it would only cause chaos in economy - larger than it already is.

The problem with limiting oil importation is that we need to first replace the oil with an equivalent amount of oil.  That could be done if we'd, say, drill for oil here or something silly like that.  We can't quit importing oil, we drive and burn gas/oil constantly.  I am not walking the 20 miles I have to go to work each day and the public bus does not go from near my home to near my work.  I make decent money at work so driving to work makes sense.

I suspect most people in this discussion room also drive which requires oil.  If I had my way we would not import even a drop of oil but that is just not realistic.

Let's see.... oil ran by the government. What models do we have to predict that outcome? Social Security? No, that's a social program. What business does the government run\control? Hmmm? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac! Yeah, that's the ticket. I can already feel the prices dropping.

Phillips

You should have said EXPORT  !!!and yes we do it.

tell the house wifes and idots to stay home on the weekends you will see gas go way down!

but the bafoons can not help going to k-mart for the blue light special.

so you see that the powers that be treat the public like cattle and leed us around by the nose rings.

pay this, buy that elmo doll etc.. unite america and take the nation back say no we will not buy from corporations that export. no we will not drive on the weekends where would they store the oil or gas there isn't any where for them to. wise up>>

You sound like one of the people who you say should stay home on weekends.

who says anyone can fix it? I doubt this mess can be fixed in 4 years - whoever is in office.

That is a very astute observation Deb; and you are absolutely correct. A republic would require the states to maintain some of their liberties free from federal influence to include not only goverence but a number of other apparantly assailable freedoms as well. For example; the use of the National Guard (which is in part financed by the individual states in which the unit is posted) overseas.

deb...republic=rule of law; democracy=mob rule.  that's why the Founding Fathers set up a republic.

and you're right-business and government have been in bed together. however it started with fdr, when business realized it could get federal handouts rather than have to properly plan and manage their enterprises through tough times, say like the swiss do.  it has only accelerated since then.

Mike - No one can fix this mess unless we all start thinking like adults and take our government back. Our votes really do count (unless they are tampered with by the Republican machine). Obama is the best choice with his intelligence and understanding of economics, the pain will be shorter and less severe.

You started off right Fisherman but ended wrong.  The GOP says one thing, then does the wrong thing.  The Dems will straight out do the wrong thing.  I give Obama 100 days before the media love affair wears off.

The Republicans have no monopoly on election irregularities.  The Democrats are just as bad.  The solution as I see it is to replace every one of the sob's with a person from another party and start over.  

Mac........Don't you just wish people would stop defining Repulicans this and Democrats that?  How about "We are all Americans and are in this together.  We have the right to bitch and moan (which a lot of countries do not have).  We have a right to be mad as hell.  But the bottom line is.........we are all Americans (well, most of us).  We have solved bigger problems before and I doubt this will be the last one.  Instead of complaining, let's put our heads together and see what can be done.  Everything does not have to have a law attached to it.  We are not powerless.

fisherman - you had me until half way through your first sentence.

Speaking realistically, I don't think anything will be fixed prior to complete breakage.  Government will not voluntarily limit its authority.  Taxes only grow, never seem to shrink.  Politicians never forgo pork, or try to close programs.  Our current individual share of the national debt is $189,000 per person.  The only way to actually fix the problem is to expatriate yourself and let the system collapse behind you.

are you legal??? do you know anything about the oil spike?? would you cut your wrist if you daugther married a Jew?? would you not post anymore??

Panfilo - We don't have an oil agreement with Iran any longer. I believe the concern has more to do with various range missiles being dropped on our heads as well as the heads of other nations (friendly with the US or otherwise) who may not have positive relations with Iran. They are perceived by the UN (and I generally agree with very little this restrictive and bureaucratically mired organization says or does) as a transparantly dangerous and rogue nation bent on the destruction of anything Western or Israeli. Keep in mind that western includes the entire European Union as well as everything this side of the ocean.

Pity...Iran actually has some rich history.

hey panboy Do you really have a clue as to how the world works? You must get your points of view from OLBERMAN and Mathews.. to idiots if I have seen one..

Are you that big of idiot to think that you would stand by and let every country around you tell you everyday that they wanted to wipe you off the map. We are not surrounded by enemies lobing missles at us each and everyday. Israel is and they do have the right to defend themselves. They are our only real ally in the Middle East and have helped us tremendously with anti-terrorist information. We have over one trillion barrels of oil that we could mass produce and get completly off of outside oil from other countries. Do some research will you, before you start blaming others.

Panfilo - You forget one VERY important thing - Our Country and it's Government are totally dependant on Israel because they are the ONLY Ally we have in the mid-East. That has nothing to do with a Jewish state or bias. If we have given a green light to Israel to protect itself by attacking any of its enemies than we are actually protecting ourselves.

Go back to wherever you came from.  You have no rights in this country.

That's better, Fisherman. But let's not forget, we are in the process of building a new ally in the mid-east.

Ouch, Optomyst. What happened to "can't we all just get along"?

Our only ally in mid-east is the only Jew country in the world except US right?  So why everyone saying we do not ally with Jew?

Only a fool such as Panfilo would even use the term wag the dog.  Sounds like a movie you watched.  Regardless of the country, even the ones that hate us, if they want freedom and face repression do we turn our back?  Do we allow one nation destoy another, to destroy a dictatorship vice an entire country is selective.  What child, deserves death, what race deserves inilation.  If I face another country who's soul wish was to wipe my race of the earth my arms would be out to anyone who would help.  I think we (America) was in that position once, thank god at the time the French will still one of our allies and hated the british more then they hated us.

Don't be so shallow or to stupid to think Isreal can't defend itself.  The reason they haven't removed Iran as a threat to Mid East peace is that Iran knows they exist because Isreal knows there population doesn't support there governments ideas.  When threatend for real (hopefully not before comman sence prevails) what threatens Isreal and all of the Mid East will be removed, only this time for good.  Isreal has proved they have that capibility and Iran has shown the world they can't stop it. 

lastly, this isn't about Oil, at least when it comes to Isreal.  This is about the existance of a Country, a race, a democracy.  Isreal has tried to go to the peace table, peace is the last thing a dictator wants, the fear he welds is his power to keep his people in check.  If Isreal, Eygpt, Saudi Arabia can co exist, so can the rest of the world.  Chill out and start reading your history books.

I am sooo tired of everyone complaining about President Bush. Honestly. Did you vote? Did your friends and family vote? Honestly. Do you have any friends in Ohio? Did you call them and remind them to vote? Out of my office with about 15 people, maybe 3 voted. If you really hate the president, then you should have worked harder at getting John Kerry elected. Not just whining, sending e-mails, or marching naked in the street. You should have sent money to the campaign, drove your old Aunts to the polls, whatever it took.

Katherine - I'm afraid that if the majority of the US people didn't want President Bush, then he probably wouldn't be sporting the title of "President". Even with the electoral college it would have worked that way. If the majority of US voters had punched the hole next to John Kerry's name; he would now be president. The only exeption to this would in the case described by Molly (above posting) where those who did not support Bush simply decided not to vote at all.

The majority actually did vote against George. But the electoral college DOES have the right to vote which ever way they think the American people MEANT to. Therefore, George lost the popular vote (at least in the most recent circus) and the electoral college voted him in anyway. Florida was a big shenanigan, remember? Recounts upon recounts until having to go to court?

Hey katherine go cry me a river. Florida was re counted and re counted. The Dems if you remember would not allow Overseas ballots to be counted from Service men and women. If you dont like America or its leaders wait 4 or 8 yrs it will change.. If you really are that upset move to Afghanistan or Iraq. Then bitch about the leadership. Hell move to Russia and whine.. If you dont vote wich over 60% of Americans dont. Only 50% of the 50% who could vote in an election ever vote. What does that say for America? Whine all you want but in 4 months you will have another leader of the free world and you better hope its not the leftist, socialist who wants to re distrubute wealth in America.

Joe - Where did you get that information? Have you read the findings of the voting investigation of 2004? It was found that the absentee ballots were prevented from being counted in Florida by Bush's Brother Jeb. The whole farce was a republican strategy that happened to work because the American people didn't have the checks and balances to prevent it.

Was there a point there.  Waiting for the repubs to leave office, the dems did what, so I take it you voted your instinct cause it sure sounds like you didn't vote for Nobama.

GORE won the popular vote in 2000. Yes, true, the electoral college voted for Bush, and that is the law, true, and Bush became President, absolutely true.  I know the law.  I understand that.

BUT, GORE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.  Period.

Uh, I have news for you Dearie, Gore lost, Bush won. Get over it, duh.

Bush didn't win anything.  The supreme court installed him.  Were you asleep through all that? or are you typically selectively remembering ONLY what you choose to?

And McCain was neck and neck with obama in the popular vote, not the "landslide" the Dems patted themselves on the back for!

Let me state the truth one more time:

Gore won the popular vote in 2000.  The electoral college, not the people of America, selected Bush as President.

Americans, in general, never ever wanted Bush as President in 2000.  We were right then, and we were right all along.

Hey Greg, why don't you get off your duff and do something about the electorial college instead of crying like a 4 year old? Why is it  that people on the street have a million opinions about how things should work yet never do what is needed to make it something that does work?

Nothing but a bunch of complainers.

The Supreme Court ended the endless attempts by the democrats to squeeze one more vote out of that turnip. As I remember Clinton had less than 50% of the vote and we put up with 8 years of him. I guess he was good as a daytime drama.

I am thankful that Gore received more votes than Bush in the 2000 election.

I don't care how anyone wants to spin it:  AMERICA ELECTED GORE in 2000.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WERE RIGHT!

your still complaining about that? Maybe a good therapist...

Now, you can eat your words...

Apparently Nancy Pelosi is one of those Mental Midgets.... Too bad she's speaker of the house - and from my state!

She is as bad as Bush, She had a fit till she got a jet on us the taxpayer to use for her self. Airforce jet crew. She is after one thing what she can get for her self that it.

come on peple it is Dem and Rep that put the tax payer in this mess because we do nothing about it. We just complane. It is time to re do our government and have it once again for the people and of the people not for the politian and big bussiness.

We let them make so many depented on the government instead of being responsable for them self.

We let the government take all our taxes and do as they please not what the people want. time to vote the whole mess out of office.

I think Al Gore would have been a better candidate.

What gets a person elected has as much to do with personality as real issues and unfortunately Gore doesn't have what it takes in that department.

Research for alternatives? Do you know who does that research? The oil companies. I don't want them to get any of my tax dollars. Instead, why not spend that money on infrastructure as in hydrogin stations and facilities to supply them.

Molly, do you know anything about the cost of Hydrogen cars? Why would we create and infastructure of a alternative energy that is to expensive to produce. Hydrogen cars require large amounts of platinum to make the car, and we all know platinum is very expensive.

But would it be cheaper if we manufactured more of them? I'm just asking. They do seem to make sense. I would agree that additional nuclear power only makes sense when we can figure out what in the world to do with all the waste. What are the alternatives to U-235 and platinum? Drill, drill, drill doesn't seem to be working. I'm no huge environmentalist, but there has to be an answer. Public transportation doesn't work everywhere.

Public transportation doesn't work in America, go to Europe they have a very good public transportation system in place.

molly, if you read the 10-k filings of the oil companies, many of them are doing research on alternatives, sometimes in cooperation with universities or other agencies. and fyi, they do not directly receive any of your tax dollars. they do get credits or deductions for various exploration and development activities.  whether they need or deserve them is a separate conversation.

Molly, hydrogen will never work.  It's too expensive to produce, maintain and store.  When you think of hydrogen tanks think "the hindenburg" and then you'll realize why H2 will never work...

Second, the alternative to "drill baby drill" is honestly wind, hydroelectric, and most importantly solar power.  Nuclear power could be thrown in to some extent, but it is ALSO a limited resource and carries many dangers with it as well.  Wind and hydroelectric to some extent are limited, as you need open space for the former and need to be near running water for the latter.  Solar power however can be produced in every home, every building, every city, across the globe with no waste, no maintenance, and no moving parts.  Solar is the future...

The public transportation in Europe works so well because gas is over $6.00 a gallon and has been for the last 10 years! They tax their vehicles on horsepower, so if you want to drive a powerful sportscar, you pay for it, so there are very few of them in Europe, mostly little VW rabbits and such.

Drowning... Solar, wind and nuclear do nothing when it comes down to a mobile fuel source. That's what all the talk about hydrogen and 'drill, baby, drill' is all about. If you have an alternative we'd love to hear it. So far there have been no serious takers.

Just to be preemptive, please don't rant on about electric vehicles. While it could cut into a number of areas it still does nothing for moving the nation as far as commerce is concerned and the initial overhead is likely to be so high that only those who can truely afford 5 dollar a gallon gas could afford to adopt the electric car. It's simply not a solution in it's current form.

Alternative energy is most likely to be developed by private business in the pursuit of profits. Free market is the most efficient use of scarce resources with alternative uses.

You're right, many of us didn't vote......but we will this time......FOR McCAIN...HOO-HAAH!!!!!!

Are you kidding? McCain the would be president who left his wife when he returned home from war because she was too ugly to look at after she was in accident and suffered 3rd degree burns on her body. So he married someone 20 years younger than him with a lot more money. McCain the president who would let a bunch of old fat white men in congress tell a girl who was raped she has to keep the baby. McCain the president who doesn't know how to do math or use a computer. Get a clue. John McCain is the past and i certainly don't endorse Obama as the future. He's an arrogant a_hole in his own right. But since i'm left no other choice i'll become a single issue voter and vote to keep women's rights.
a little humor: http://www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com/

i agree with the fact the MCcain is not the president for this country nor is Obama so i will vote for an independent. or may i will just write in micky mouse he would do a better job then MCcain or Obama.

Actually, it's not a throw away vote, if it is cast for the entity that can do the best job.

Sadly a large portion of folks going out to vote this time will be voting for the wrong reasons.

There are 4 years worth of people who were unable to vote against Bush, who were educated on politics and government since 7th grade when Bill Clinton was leaving office. That's a really big number if you'd like to add it up. If you can't vote for Obama, then please just don't vote for McCain.

We (those who were unable to vote in the last election because of age) are in college now. We are computer literate and know how to look up facts and history and expert unbiased un-endorsed advice (taxes/economy). Wait to see the record numbers in which young people vote for the first time. We are the future and we can see through the lies that either side is willing to spew for political gain (just to be fair).

A third party vote is not wasted, you are still telling the nation your opinion. An vote not had IS wasted. Again, if you cannot vote for Obama, find a 3rd party position that mirrors your own and follow through with it. We're seeing what (the fake) Republican's want for this country. The "trickle down" system is NOT working, nor has it ever! Giving Big Businesses tax breaks does NOT help our economy. And giving Big Brother the green light may help stop SOME law breakers and terrorists, but it will not stop ALL of them. Smart people find ways of getting around the system, while you're ready to give up your Constitutional Rights so that you can 'say' you live in a safer America. That is a farce. If there's a will, there's a way, and anyone wanting to do something terrible to America will find it.

This 'number' our economy is linked to is fake. So are the dollar bills in your pocket and the laws that our government 'abides' by. The citizens are surrounded by means of control that anyone else above that level doesn't have to follow (and there is proof that this happens multiple times in any given year). Keep living whatever life you want to but when it comes time to face up to the facts, be prepared for accountability (something our higher offices don't do). You will be held accountable and NO-ONE is going to bail you out.

Don't follow the example our government is setting. Be your own person and do what you think is right. Create your own educated opinion (the knowledge is out there) and don't settle for an unanswered question.

Here's the problem with your theory, College students don't vote. You may, your friends may, but you are way in the minority. If even almost all college students voted, democrats would be ellected every time. Old people vote. That's why old people get all the money and benefits.

I was an undecieded voter. Repubican or Democrat? Capital hills reaction to this bailout has got me off the fence. Both those parties are out of touch. I'm voting Libertarian in November and I would encourage anyone else who feels they have been ignored to do the same

WOW Bri, do you go to Berkley? You seem to be pulling all the talking points from Olberman, Matthews and moveon.org. It seems as though the influences of your Professors have made you a little short sighted and you have failed to check the Democrat nominee on your own searches, or you choose to ignore what you are reading because it doesn't fit with your way of thinking. Simple enough, do I agree with all of McCain's policies...not at all, but I definitely disagree with most if not all of Obama's policies that are generated by others thoughts.
For instance, who on his staff worked for freddie mac and earned over 90 million in 6 years.....hmmmm check it out.
Why did Obama pick Biden as his running mate....hmmmm maybe his complete inexperience in foreign policy.
You know, I could go on and on...about both candidates but if you are in college, I suggest you go somewhere other than a liberal school of brainwashing and take an economics class as well as a Civics class so you can hear about the financial market and the government without being brainwashed into thinking that all Republicans are bad and Democrats/Liberals were good.

Fact check....why was their a surplus in Clinton's years...because their was a Republican held Congress and Senate. The GOP did lose their way and became as corrupt as the Democrats did and as the Democrats are now. Wake up and smell the Starbucks you stop at and do some actual research, not moveon.or and the Huffington Post.

That's a wicked googley!!!!

Foreign oil.... does that include our primary source of "foreign" oil... Canada... 60% of all imported oil
is Canadian... how dare they drill next door to us!!!

I think... Would this be considered "spam"?

NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE FROM,BUT I LIVE IN LOUISIANA WHERE WE PRODUCES ABOUT 50 % OF ALL THE OIL IN AMERICA .MAYBE MORE IF YOU GO BY PALIN WAY OF COUNTING AND DRILLING IS NOT THE ANSWER.WHO WOULD DO THE DRILLING AND WHO'S OIL WOULD IT BE TO SELL AND FOR HOW MUCH? YOU MUST BE A REPUBLICAN IF YOU MADE THIS STATEMENT BEFORE THINKING ABOUT THE ANSWERS.

Exactly why we need to be drilling for the oil and natural gas that is here in America.. And as far as the price of Gas.. it is exaclty were AL WHORE and nancy and harry and Ted the killer want the price to be.. Why do you think Congress took a 5 week vacation and did nothing?

What you don't seem to realize is that oil produced here does not stay here. It goes on the global market and goes to the highest bidder.

I  am afraid  that  the  Democrats  will  do  everything  in  their  power  to  sabotage  the  market gains  until  after  election.  They  will  risk  the  national  and  world  economy  to  get  elected! There  are  already  signs  that  greed  is  taking  hold  of  people.  The  913  Monday  market gain  is being erased  by profit-taking!  Who are  the people  who  take  profit  at  such a  dangerous  time  for  the  Nation?  I  suspect  that  they  are  Democrats!  They  want  market  to  fall  to insure  that  the  Republicans  fall! It's Orwellian  all right! It's sinister!

Watch now that the reorganization of the German Company that John McCain pressured the commerce dept to allow them to purchase the Air Bourne Epress in '03. That Company now is DHL and is going to try to exclusively use UPS. This doesn't bother some but the movement of DHL hub in Ohio could effect up[ to 8,000 union members. UPS is Union and has added the Overnite Freight system to its rolls. Sooner or later this deregulation of all our industries is going to take its toll on the consumer as one by one our choices are being limited.

As a ex trucker of many years, it was said to me by a plant manager that he could pick up the phone and have 30 different truck lines to choose from and get the best price, he also said that he in the future would pickup the phone and wait for a long time someone to answer and he could expect a delay of possibly days or weeks to get his product moved and to boot he would have to pay top dollar to get the product moved.

This is the result of getting govt. out of big business. It was Alfred Khan that said that deregulation was the way to go to Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Ronnie Reagan and the supply side (Voodoo Economics) but, he said in order for deregulation to work you must have "honest people dealing with honest people". Was Senator Phil Gram honest in deregulating the Banking industry. For the first time in 77 years the speculators and investment firms (bear sterns J.P morgan fire side sale price) were allowed to raid the Federal Reserve. How safe do you imagine your investment is safe or guaranteed by this very same Federal Deposit Insurance Corp that is a for profit entee. Look at the Air Line mess that deregulation caused, it surely was not fuel prices it was the bigger giants getting rid of excess capacity and breaking unions. Funny the concessions of USAirways in price was the very figure trhat the CEO, CFO and head shed got in bounses. The utilities and every other Industry that has been deregulated. "Honest people Dealing with Honest People" that has to be one of Jay Leno jokes. Our country that in my life time of 73 years has been sold out to foreign investors ever since we became the largest debt nation from the Carter years of the largest Creditor nation. $9.5 trillion dollar debt is what all of us are having to pay at one time or another. Do we have anyone who can wave that magic wand to make this horrible figure go away. Maybe the UAE could forgive our debt as they forgave Saddam Hussein debt with all our money they stole from the US population. "Honest People Dealing With Honest People would never have let 4,144 military lives top be scarficed for just a position in the Middle East as Rep John Boehner R-Ohio said when our toll was 3,700 that it is a "Small Price To Pay For Our Position In The Middle East.

The War hero sank the Boeing tanker deal with his saving of 6 billion dollars using retrofitted KC-135s, while his lobbist and campaign people lobbied for the EU Air Bus Tanker, imagine how Senator Jeff Sessions felt when one of his own Republican stole the Tanker deal from him and Mobile Ala. Where are you America? Letting the "Back Door Draft" and low paid military fight a world war as the Commander-in-chief says from Crawford Texas. Howe do you define VICTORY, is that like Nixion declaring victory in Veitnam?

Watch now that the reorganization of the German Company that John McCain pressured the commerce dept to allow them to purchase the Air Bourne Epress in '03. That Company now is DHL and is going to try to exclusively use UPS. This doesn't bother some but the movement of DHL hub in Ohio could effect up[ to 8,000 union members. UPS is Union and has added the Overnite Freight system to its rolls. Sooner or later this deregulation of all our industries is going to take its toll on the consumer as one by one our choices are being limited.

As a ex trucker of many years, it was said to me by a plant manager that he could pick up the phone and have 30 different truck lines to choose from and get the best price, he also said that he in the future would pickup the phone and wait for a long time someone to answer and he could expect a delay of possibly days or weeks to get his product moved and to boot he would have to pay top dollar to get the product moved.

This is the result of getting govt. out of big business. It was Alfred Khan that said that deregulation was the way to go to Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Ronnie Reagan and the supply side (Voodoo Economics) but, he said in order for deregulation to work you must have "honest people dealing with honest people". Was Senator Phil Gram honest in deregulating the Banking industry. For the first time in 77 years the speculators and investment firms (bear sterns J.P morgan fire side sale price) were allowed to raid the Federal Reserve. How safe do you imagine your investment is safe or guaranteed by this very same Federal Deposit Insurance Corp that is a for profit entee. Look at the Air Line mess that deregulation caused, it surely was not fuel prices it was the bigger giants getting rid of excess capacity and breaking unions. Funny the concessions of USAirways in price was the very figure trhat the CEO, CFO and head shed got in bounses. The utilities and every other Industry that has been deregulated. "Honest people Dealing with Honest People" that has to be one of Jay Leno jokes. Our country that in my life time of 73 years has been sold out to foreign investors ever since we became the largest debt nation from the Carter years of the largest Creditor nation. $9.5 trillion dollar debt is what all of us are having to pay at one time or another. Do we have anyone who can wave that magic wand to make this horrible figure go away. Maybe the UAE could forgive our debt as they forgave Saddam Hussein debt with all our money they stole from the US population. "Honest People Dealing With Honest People would never have let 4,144 military lives top be scarficed for just a position in the Middle East as Rep John Boehner R-Ohio said when our toll was 3,700 that it is a "Small Price To Pay For Our Position In The Middle East.

The War hero sank the Boeing tanker deal with his saving of 6 billion dollars using retrofitted KC-135s, while his lobbist and campaign people lobbied for the EU Air Bus Tanker, imagine how Senator Jeff Sessions felt when one of his own Republican stole the Tanker deal from him and Mobile Ala. Where are you America? Letting the "Back Door Draft" and low paid military fight a world war as the Commander-in-chief says from Crawford Texas. Howe do you define VICTORY, is that like Nixion declaring victory in Veitnam?

first, the boeing aircraft was significantly flawed. my son flies 135s for the NJ ANG, and there is no way he or his crew would get on one of those boeings.

second, the euro consortium would build the plane in the US, opening factories in various states, including session's alabama.  as my son said, it's a far superior aircraft in every respect, from design and engineering to longevity.

it's a shame. boeing used to be the premier aircraft company in the world. how far the mighty have fallen.

Dan, I know exactly where you are coming from. However, in November some heads are gonna roll when Obama is elected. He will tax the hell out of the rich to the point where healthcare will be available for all like it is over there in France. Tax increases adversely effect the rich and it's going to happen. Guaranteed.

tongue in cheek....love it.....the rich need more money like a dog needs more fleas

I have a question for anyone who chooses to answer it.

What is your personal definition of Rich?

Someone making over 100K? Someone who's net worth is over 5 million?

Do you think the "rich" have enough for all the big plans the government loving libs have in mind for us, you might want to crunch the numbers, higher taxes cost everybody. If you really believe the government needs more money and has the best answers for the economy, then reach into your own pocket and give. This class warfare crap is crazy. A bad economy is bad for everyone. People who are getting ahead need a good economy to stay ahead and when more people have more of their own money, more people get ahead it isn't rocket science. If we just picked out somebody who needed help and gave them some money it would be cheaper than funneling it through the earmarks and patronage in Washington. I am shocked that anyone believes Washington will take good care of them.

I tend to be liberal, but I do feel that the tax the rich is a form of class warfare. I personally do not feel that just because a person does well, he/she is obligated to throw more money into the tax system. Biblically? Morally? Maybe. Legally? No. I would propose that loopholes be closed so that everyone is on the same basis. Take someone like Bill Gates. I personally don't feel one way or the other about the person. Just because he has a couple piles of money doesn't mean he should pay more into the government, especially when you consider that the company he started has created so many opportunities for so many others. How many entrepreneurs were made because of his business? How many other good paying jobs? How much income tax came as a result of those jobs, not to mention the increased decadent consumerism? Equitable tax laws and opportunity for advancement at all strata of society is what we need.

Socalgal - I'll admit I'm a bit biased being that I make (if I could get 40 hrs a week) under $18,000 a year before taxes. But I would consider myself rich (monetarily) right before living flamboyantly comfortable, with all of my debts paid back with some amount of money saved for the future and an income that can achieve these things and yet help to keep my family healthy and provide the best education possible. I think I would be able to do that at $50,000 a year. Then, if my taxes were going back to my community and I could see the change, I would be happy to help quite a bit more than I can today.

Legitimate change is what we need. We don't just need the motions and the wavers and vetos, we need to actually see the change. We need for our government to follow through with the promises they make trying to get elected. At every level, because every level of government effects YOU!

privatize profits, socialize losses. Make sense, doesn't it?

Okay people, a simple math question----how do you as a government raise funds when you're spending at a deficit? I tend to think we Americans are the scariest folks on the planet---we hear "tax increase", and we want to shoot the messenger before he can take another breath. But say "tax cut", and the messenger is welcome to our vote any time. So, how can the pull-a-ticians promise to cut taxes, and at the same time decrease the deficit spending at a time when even if you cut spending, you're subject to higher prices because of inflation? Answer: They Can't! I'm by no means rich, but even I know that a government can't tax-cut their way out of any deficit---Reagan's cure was to push the cost to the next generation. Guess what? We ARE the next generation, and we can barely pay the interest on the long-standing debt of this country. The Gipper is long gone, so he has no worries (no earthly ones, anyway), but we're still here and we are now seeing the results of this troubled math. Problem is, bush is using the same formula. I'm sure our children and grandchildren will wonder what the **** were we thinking.

socalgal....I don't think with the economic disparities in the US you can put one number on that question. 

The more sensiable question to ask, would be how much do you need and go from there (again you would need to consider your local economy). 

How much money do you need to provide a basic lifestyle for you and yours.  Considering: rent/mortgage, household expenses (Utilities, insurance, maintenance), Transportation (car, insurance, gas maintenance), Groceries, medical expenses (premiums, copay, prescriptions, minor emergency items), Misc expenses (clothing, gifts, school supplies, pet expenses. Then add 10% for savings.  Everything else is a what you do in life for pleasure, education or saving for the future furniture, new stuff,  vacations.

The key to the factor is the economy of where you live.  If you are in a highly depressed area your cost of living may be low but chances are your salary will as well.  If you are in an area where costs are inflated and your particular expertise over serves the job market and doesn't pay well you might consider a relocation to an area with a balanced economy. 

In the area I live in I would say rich was $2,000,000 in cash and assets with at least $250,000 annual salary. But that figure would probably not offer the same quality of life in New York or LA.

I fully agree Txmom, I live in Southern California where you saw real estate balloon for seven yrs and now it is bust. If you bought during any of those seven years there is a possibility that you are now upside down on your house, meaning you owe more than it is worth. Guess what you are still obligated to make the payment. It is very easy for someone who is not required to make that payment to say oh $50,000 is plenty to live on.

In addition I live in this great state have some of the highest prices when it comes to gas.

I am willing to pay this premium this is my choice, however it is not fair to scorn people who make this choice. I must make a higher wage to maintain the lifestyle I choose so does that make a person such as myself evil? I think not. Should I be required to lower my living standard? Nope instead I will just have to pay more taxes.....Unfair, I already pay a higher percentage of taxes.

Joe, you're right on the money---Does anyone remember bush stating during the 2000 election cycle that we were in a recession in order to scare the masses? So, what is it that we are experiencing now? The sheer duplicity of this administration is now coming back to bite them in the rear, as today's House rejection would be tantamount to a no-confidence vote in other governments. When compared to 2001, the deficit is higher, unemployment is higher, and take a look at the market conditions on Jan. 20, 1993 (Clinton takes office), Jan. 20, 2001 (Bush takes office) and today. As the market close is an indicator of asset (stock) appreciation, it would seem that after 7+ years in office this administration has overseen a FALL in appreciation values---and this does not even take inflation into account!

What gets me is that we had similar conditions in 1987, when "junk bonds" (leveraged instruments, or gambling with other people's money) tanked and Wall Street paid the price. Well guess what? They found something else to gamble on, and the outcome is the same. Is it that our politicians are so much in the pocket of business interests that they have failed to consider the voter's welfare when making policy? That could explain the lack of oversight by those elected to legistlate it. After all, what would a company have to gain by "giving" thousands of dollars to anyone's campaign? Congress-bought and paid for!

The trouble is, we don't expect the government to take care of us--we do, however, expect the government NOT TO HURT US.  When our government supports Dubai and China and every other country of their choosing instead of its own people, then it is a problem. 

Can you say George Soros & remember Enron? Ha! Ha!

Socal, to me, a truly rich person doesn't have to depend on a paycheck to get by. They have enough money to enjoy life, have health care, have a house, food, etc.

Now, some people can get by on 50K a year and support themselves. Some people think they need 500K.

Either way, a "rich" person doesn't have to work to get through life. That's my definition.

To: Nick Scpa
I concur wholeheartedly!! Why the policymakers don't announce emergency action to achieve these ends is tantamount to TREASON!!

I agree with you also, but if we do drill, is the oil going to the market where it can be bid on or are we going to keep our oil.

The government needs to act really soon or it wont matter, the usa will no longer be a superpower,unless this is the plan all along...

Because you know more than any expert, right?

I would love for you to prove me wrong, I really would, but the answer to our immediate problem is not that easy.

There are only going to be 15 offshore rigs available for contract during the next 2 years. The others are all going to the new oil fields discovered off the coast of Brizal. See the comany reports for Transocean (RIG) and (THE). There is a world wide shortage of both rigs and personnel.

Once the oil companies pay the 45% tax on the crude oil that is removed from the ground. The oil then goes to the highest bidder, the idea that it is ours is wrong. The big oil companys are international companies not nationalized institutions.

Any new oil rigs will take over 6 years to build and placed into production. See YAHOO - Thunder Horse. The hulls will be built in other countries, because of the NIMBY people closing all the ship building ports in the USA. The only ones left in the USA built high cost US Navy ships.

If you do not want ANWAR opened for drilling, think about this. Last year Russia planted their flag on the ocean floor at the North Pole. Staking a claim to the vast oil reserves and other natural resources. Russia claims the Lomonosov Ridge, a under water ridge crossing the polar region, is a extension of their territory. If the USA does not go there now, in thirty years all you will see is Russia oil rigs. China is drilling for oil between Cuba & the USA now. see http://www.countercurrents.org/penkeith030807.htm

Open the USA coast for oil drilling now, to retreive the 150+ million billion cubic feet of natural gas that was proven to be there 40 years ago. see http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/natural_gas_1998_issues_trends/pdf/chaption

We need a national energy policy now. A policy that looks into the next centry not the next election cycle. The Federal Government should be colectively tried for treason for their intentional inactions, pandering to foreign special interest groups, and total lack of vision. They all should be well hung or maybe we can bring back public beheading. Ha! Ha!

Drilling in the U.S. or off-shore will NOT solve our energy problem. It will take 10-20 years, or more, for this oil to reach market. And who says the oil companies have to sell us any of this oil? They don't, so what's the point? Right now they are selling Alaskan oil to Asia, while Alaska gets a cut of the profits but the rest of the country doesn't. Wake up and realize any drilling will only make the oil execs richer and the rest of us poorer.

You must have slept thru a bunch of classes.Iam from south louisiana (houma) in the heart of the oilfields.The oil companies have leases they refuse to drill on right now.Do you have any ideal how they bid or get these leases?Or how the federal goverment which owns the land (water) decide when to lease new land? And who is going to drill these new wells,they are not done with a 3/4 inch black and decker.Then who will own the gas or oil that comes out of the casing.Does it sell for less than market price or more?If we get to keep the oil here who will refine it into gas or diesel? Every time a republican comes up with an ideal you had better CHECK IT OUT OR YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER MESS
Now as far as medical coverage for everyone..we have it allready and who is paying for it now?If you have it thru work then you are already paying for it , so dont tell me it going to cost like trillions of dollars to help every one ,and oh by the way mc cains answer is lets tax the employer what he pays for health insurance.

:  If I'm not mistaken the last time alaskan oil was sold or exported was in 2004, all the oil alaska produces is consumed domestically..  Congress says it would take 10-20 years.  The oil companies say they could get it to the market in as little as 1 to 2 years.

sharon, no it will take 2-4 years as the equipment is all sitting idle and available immediately. drilling could start inside of 90 days.

larry...they only drill where geological formations and test wells tell them it's viable.  over 90% of the leased land/areas are dry.  of course they won't drill where geology tells them it's fruitless. each offshore well costs over $200 million to put in place. that's a he!! of a cost to do a test, if the geology is zilch.

There's no way the dollar will gain value....once Iran starts trading in Euros....but odds are we'll bomb them back to the stone age before that happens.

Hey wait a minute...isn't that what happened to Saddam...he had the tamarity to trade oil in Euros and that's the exact moment we invaded.

mmm sounds awfully fishy to me

Scores of billions of barrels of oil??  Reference please.

not, US geologic survey, the oil companies, and others not connected with the energy industry have concluded that the US has enough oil reserves to put saudi arabia out of business-if we have the guts to act in our interests.  we also have sufficient natural gas to last over 100 years.  i think that gives us sufficient time to develop workable - and affordable - alternatives.

china is drilling off the cuban coast now.  not vertically-horizontally, tapping into the fields within eyesight of the florida coast. 

I agree. Let's see them suffer a little bit and see if things don't change. But I know you are right and that will never happen. It's a shame what has happened to this country and it's people. Our government should be ashamed of themselves and how they are behaving, which is affecting every hard working American in this country.

You wake up Dan....conservation is the only way for YOU PERSONALLY to spend less money. Everything else you suggest is well and good....but here's the real reality check

THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

You can write you congressman and you can vote and you can bitch about it in here but the bottom line is that you need to conserve if you think energy prices are too high.

heres the problem with oil no one tells the american people,oil is not the problem here,the problem,we burn more than america can refine,if texas lousiana,were no more,gasoline would be 12.00 a gallon,3 refineries in texas 2 in lousianna,supplying the biggest users of gasoline the USA there is your problem,one more thing if takes 10 to 15 years to get american oil to the pumps,HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE THIS GREEN THEORY TO OUR HOMES???????????

Great idea. I hope you don't have any savings, or real estate assets, or else you are going to find out you aren't as prepared as you so arrogantly presume you are.

With "the crash" your money will be worth nothing along with most of the rest of your tangible assets. It's not uncommon for countries with struggling economies to cut the value of their currency by multiples of 10 or 100. Think about what that will do to your savings.

Aside from your arrogance, and being so sure you can survive a crash, one thing I will agree with is conservation. But, we can only do that to a point. We still need to travel to work, still need our construction vehicles,ETC, hard to load up a compact car if you work in construction or any fact similar. On you can't do anything about it, you are far off base, the people can do something about it, they need to unite in the streets, in their organizations, work places, where ever. listening to you it sounds as if conservation will end all problems, it won't when you have the greed that runs the show. We have conserved in different areas only to hear we are supplying less, making less money, so we need to raise the prices. You might as well roll over play dead and let them run all over you. The power of the people united is the ultimate power, don't stake your life against it.

1. I live and work on an organic farm....utilitzing solar panels and electricity.

2. If gasoiline and the the supermarket disappeared tomorrow, I could survive

3. All of my assets are in gold and silver bullion, haven't saved dollars for years.

4. Barter and trade dominate in my farming community.

5. I'm just a kid from Jersey who saw all this coming 5 years ago and have prepared for it.

So don't be assuming that I'm arrogant and without common sense. I wouldn't be arrogant if i hadn't prepared appropriately :)

Well, well, all your preparation is just wonderful. If it gets to that point, I suggest that you also prepare yourself to fight. Your organic farm and your communal living will be in the sights of those who are desperate, and I can assure you, they won't have a shortage of guns or bullets. No man is an island, especially when the masses are hurting. You're living in false security.

What makes you think I don't have guns, ammunition, good relationships with my community to fend off what you call "the desparate."

Don't break me down...already thought that.

So don't be assuming that I'm arrogant and without common sense. I wouldn't be arrogant if i hadn't prepared appropriately :)

No arrogance there LOLOL!!! Shane Ashton is invincible!!!!!

You might want to think about that idea, unless you are completely isolated you could become a target in a collapse. People get pretty crazy when they are desperate, my wife owns a farm and we could survive but i don't want to watch others suffer because some politician refused to enact policies to reduce the stress of higher oil prices. The lack of action by congress to increase oil production is criminal.

That's when the dumb and unwilling die. People who are will to make sacrifices in order to survive, will - for the most part. We may witness a unifying of church and state to keep peoples spirits up and to give them something to believe in (I would probably die before this happened).

There could be mass riots of destruction and desperate acts, or there could be peace and people might mellow out enough to be accepted by the earth.

Hypothetical ideas only go so far.

I already feel like I've been let down already & agree with Shane as well.

LET THE M'ER F'ER BURN!

I got into a bind last year and needed to close all my 401Ks and keep my house. AND for those of you that WILL come out of the woodwork and say I should have let it go because it's not worth that anymore, I'll say this; I still have equity becasue my family sold me my grand father's home for "half" market value! The ACTUAL VALUE of the house is financed with an institution that will NOT sell my mortgage and backs themselves with REAL ASSETS! NOW that's a Novel idea for WALL STREET and BIG banks/Oil/Mortgage FOOLS!

I struggled on jmy own and found my own solutions except I now how NO investment to LOSE any more money with. The amount that I would have lost by now has grwon to more than double what my penalties were! I'd be doubly SCREWED by now!

Shane's underlying point is a good one... anyone that voted for a deregulated, free market should expect big swings.  These are a natural occurance as business gets its way and becomes overleveraged on the backs of consumers.

So survival of the most intelligent; those who did not overextend themselves to keep up with the Joneses by building their savings and minimizing debt... to deal with the inevitable severe downturn.

To republicans who are now overextended: this is your bed, you lay in it.

Let me guess,,,,,, Again people are saying,,, "What problem ?? the Market is Strong"

Jim, exactly.

"What Problem?" Go to Disneyland, go to any airport, any restaurant, any hotel, any movie theatre, PACKED PACKED PACKED.

As long as people are lining up at concession stands paying $7.00 for a bag of popcorn, there is no problem with the economy.  

You are correct---it has been an overheated economy---stock prices and housing have been overvalued caused by speculators--------Everything is getting back to normal---you should not be able to borrow without appropriate colateral-----as for the market, for everyone who is selling, there is someone buying---------things will simmer down and the traders will eventually create trends, because that is how they profit from their trades; and house prices will level off. The really big nut that has to be cracked is the shipping of jobs off shore to lower cost labor markets.

I remember back in the '70s when Uncle Sam was building a new batch of army tanks and because a lot of small foundries had been closed due to polution concerns we had to go to Europe to purchase turrets as there wasn't enough foundry capacity in this country----now that is a rediculous situation to get yourself into!!

...and do you know how many planes GM built during wartime...

I am with a lot of people on here on this one.  I think wall street is a bunch a spoiled frat boys who are licking their wounds that the over inflated markets they created have been discovered and the party is over.  On the other hand, the rest of the country is buy gas, going to the market, shopping in malls etc. They are not doing so lavishly, they are doing it with reserve.  These markets are not reacting to the actual decline in value of the anything real. The market is subject to emotion and illusion. Every where you go, commerce is moving along.  Prices in the overblown sectors are started to settle to pre-boom levels. Things are coming around.  Bubbles pop, but you are always left with the underlying surface tension of the water below.

We did tie our dollar to gold, it is now called crude oil. Welcome to the new world.